High Ready vs. Low Ready

August 1, 2012 by Jack Murphy 66 Comments

This is one of those topics that has a tendency to set some people off. I know the SEALs jumped all over the high ready and then Blackwater began teaching it to their guys prior to deployment overseas. Later, Special Forces CIF teams adopted the high ready technique as well. As one SEAL described it to me in the past, the high ready is great because it is impossible to shoot your buddy if you have a Negligent Discharge. I have to disagree with this mindset for two main reasons.

The first is that ND’s happen because shooters get sloppy with safety measures and unit Standard Operating Procedures, whatever those procedures may be. You can zap your buddy if you are half assing the high ready just as well as if you are half assing the low ready.

Second, if your main concern as a tactical element is not having an ND and killing your own team members, than you have other priorities you need to work on. If your goal is to enter and clear rooms, maneuver to contact, or whatever the case may be, than your team needs to be tactically oriented towards accomplishing this task rather than oriented towards real or perceived safety considerations that have now became your main effort.

For those who are still unconvinced, here are a couple videos from real Subject Matter Experts:

Next subject, high ready vs. low ready with a pistol. What do you think?

CJCJ

Great stuff. Never heard the radar altimeter warning referred to as the “dirt alert”. Me likey.

Different strokes for different folks in different scenarios.

Look forward to more posts like this. Thanks for posting it.
FormerSFMedic

Very nice topic Jack! I get asked a lot about this subject and I basically adhere to all the same ideas that Kyle and Paul do. I want to use “muzzle depressed, every chance I get. When you go to “extreme high port” or “high port” you’re putting yourself at a severe disadvantage in CQB scenarios and setting yourself up for problems. That said, I believe that shooters should understand the implications of both methods. There may actually be a time where I would need to use the high port position. If I’m reloading or fixing a malfunction on the move, I would be at a “semi high port” position. There may also be other times to use the high port too, so it’s important to train both. I’m not sure why CIF went to this method? Maybe they were influenced by the SEALs. I remember seeing guys in CIF using high port a few years ago when I was working with some of those guys. Makes you wonder. I will say that the SEALs are primarily trained in “operator” methods where Soldiers are typically trained in Infantry methods. Also, the SEALs are DEFINITELY a high speed SOF unit and are at the cutting edge of many different areas of training, however they are not known for being at the forefront of weapons manipulation and weapons handling methodology. Something to think about.
- nvanwagnen
  
  @FormerSFMedic I know the videos said it was due to being taught by a shotgunner, but I have to wonder if the maritime environment had something to do with it too. For example ship assaults being conducted from below that it would make more sense to use high ready.
- HugeFan
  
  @FormerSFMedic “Makes you wonder. I will say that the SEALs are primarily trained in “operator” methods where Soldiers are typically trained in Infantry methods. Also, the SEALs are DEFINITELY a high speed SOF unit and are at the cutting edge of many different areas of training, however they are not known for being at the forefront of weapons manipulation and weapons handling methodology.”
  
  Could you possibly give some examples other than what JM provided above. I’m always looking for new ways to manipulate effectively and better handle my weapon. Always look forward to what you have to say man! 🙂
PONI

Good post, Jack. I’m with you @CJCJ, different strokes for different folks. Personally, I’m a low ready guy. I think I’d rather my fireteam guys be low ready as well for the shear fact that I’d rather take a bullet to the leg than have the top of my head blown off due to a ND. High ready does restrict your field of vision as well. But to each his own.
Old PH2

My take has always been, use what is appropriate to the situation. Walking a post or on patrol, low ready seems appropriate. In a stack at the door, High ready looks like a good call. Both are valid given the right circumstance.
- CJCJ
  
  @Old PH2 Agreed. Solo or part of a larger team? Stack, wedge, or spread formation for the team? Terrain? Out in the open on dirt or in a boat on water? Building entry? Stairwell going up or down, and positioned first or last in the stack? Liked the demo by KL and agree with the LR as a general rule. Tactical flexibility is the key.
Ullr

Agree that ND shouldn’t factor into which carry technique is used. Never really trained on high-ready for room clearing. Assume it’s a valid method, if the TEAMS are using it effectively. I know I’ve been through some small, narrow entries that would’ve caught the flash suppressor if I went through on high-ready. As PH2 states below, “use what is appropriate to situation.”

High-ready’s great when at ground level scanning rooftops. Also great for hauling ass when you need to, or when lots of high debris/vegetation on the ground.

Can’t think of a good situation anyone would use high-ready for pistol, though. Curious to see the discussion on that particular subject.
- JShepard
  
  @Ullr The good situation for high ready with the pistol is if your name is Bond, James Bond. Other than that…
  - JackMurphyRGR
    
    @JShepard @Ullr That wasn’t the kind of high ready I was talking about. I was referring to having the pistol in front of you, canted up, basically looking right over the front sight blade.
    - JShepard
      
      @JackMurphyRGR @Ullr Yeah, I hear you. Slightly confused as to what you’re describing exactly as I still have Hollywood scenes floating around. Whenever I think of ‘ high ready’ with a handgun I think of 1940’s handgun drills with the muzzle in the air. Were you talking about where the muzzle is pointed up, or just out and possibly down, but the pistol is held high on the chest? I am a fan of the medium/high compressed ready though where it is in tight to your body, high on the chest, with the muzzle is pointed straight out or pointed down by twisting your wrists. I’m here to learn, contribute (and make stupid remarks occasionally) so hit me with some knowledge!
    - Ullr
      
      @JShepard @JackMurphyRGR I was thinking Hollywood style too, thanks for clarifying. In that case, I imagine with pistol @ high ready position you could very quickly put muzzle on target. Still would prefer a low ready just to have the full range of vision.
    - JackMurphyRGR
      
      @Ullr @JShepard Not at all a stupid remark, just a difference in terminology. I will try to find a picture for you.
    - JackMurphyRGR
      
      @Ullr @JShepard From this picture it looks like maybe he is just riding the recoil but this is a good example of what I meant by the high ready with the pistol: http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6161/6152492975_65c4927772.jpg
    - JShepard
      
      @JackMurphyRGR @Ullr Yeah, that’s kind of what I was thinking of after running some mental scenarios and doing some internet searching for pics. Makes a lot more sense now. Thanks.
    - FormerSFMedic
      
      @JackMurphyRGR @Ullr @JShepard – Jack, I actually thought you were talking about the “Bond ready” too. The reason I thought that was because of this article and references to the SEALs. The SEALs actually use and teach the same ready position that they use with a carbine for their pistols too. Now, the actual “high ready” that you’re referring to is a very effective technique. Here in the states, it’s not used much. However, over in the European countries, it’s standard. My friend Jason, who is a former Aussie SAS, taught me the “high ready” and I’ve used it to great effect. In the training community, we sometimes refer to this method as the “third eye” or “third eye ready”, since the proper employment has the shooter’s eye lined up with the front sight. I’ll leave it at that. I’m looking forward to the write up!
    - HugeFan
      
      @JackMurphyRGR @Ullr @JShepard Hey, Jack. Off topic: I and another SOFREPer have tried using the Comms Check and it does not seem to be working as it normally does. portside has had his message rejected and I haven’t received confirmation yet that my sent message was received. Sorry for the sidebar but can’t really bring it to your attention if I can’t use the Comms Check LOL.
    - JackMurphyRGR
      
      @HugeFan @Ullr @JShepard That is strange, I will hit up our IT guy.
    - JackMurphyRGR
      
      @HugeFan @Ullr @JShepard Ok, our IT guy got back to me and said everything looks good. He has some messages via the comms check but couldn’t reply because whoever sent them did not leave us an e-mail address.
    - HugeFan
      
      @JackMurphyRGR @Ullr @JShepard Yep, that would make sense then as to why I did not receive a confirmation. Any ideas why a message would get rejected? Honestly, that is my last question regarding the issue. I’ll leave it there. Thank you for the help Jack! 🙂
    - JackMurphyRGR
      
      @HugeFan @Ullr @JShepard I’m afraid we can’t see that kind of information. I would suggest updating the browser as that seems to resolve a lot of issues.
    - HugeFan
      
      @JackMurphyRGR @Ullr @JShepard Copy, thank you.
      
      Noticed that KineticFury commented about using a shotgun (I’m imagining an Remmy 870 or Mossy 500) from the high-ready. Would you say that that is perhaps better for the shotgunner or would the same principles (as well as potential ND effects) apply? This is the ‘meaty’ stuff man, thanks again!
    - JackMurphyRGR
      
      @HugeFan @Ullr @JShepard We only used shotguns for ballistic breaches, not offensively so it’s a different application than say, home defense.
    - HugeFan
      
      @JackMurphyRGR @Ullr @JShepard Right, I get that. Guess it really wasn’t applicable to this, huh? So (and this for anyone cuz I don’t want to Bogart Jack’s time here) are there modified high ready/low ready positions to hold (you can tell I have no idea :-D) that are more applicable for different profiles? Like what FormerSFMedic was talking about regarding guys who clear rooms (SF, SEALs etc.) vs. infantry who clear fields. This stuff is soooo interesting, it’s like an elevated form of martial arts. You know, “Equilibrium”-status. Maybe… I know it seems cheesy and far-fetched.
    - BLACK01
      
      @FormerSFMedic @JackMurphyRGR @Ullr @JShepard Doesnt Jason Falla advocate this “high ready”?
JShepard

Wow, making me question yet again how I do things. Thanks, always helpful. So here’s a SME question. I want to know WHY they/we do these things. Paul makes some good points about AD/ND’s but that seems like a training issue for NDs and ADs. I’ve always thought generally muzzle down for movement and pretty much everything else except reloading. The picture of another SME (Costa) on another topic is up there and reminding me of the reloading drills in their vids where they teach up front “in the work space” where you can see what’s going on around you while you are getting your weapon back up. This ends up with muzzle up for reloading, but down for everything else. Is Paul talking more for being in a stack of guys inside where you have people around you, or all the time? It seems I would want to have a good idea of what’s going on around? A little help is always appreciated!
Matt2

Kyle Lamb is the man.
- DCR375
  
  @Matt2 Paul Howe is the man as well.
  - Matt2
    
    @DCR375 no argument there:-)
KineticFury

Funny I was just thinking about this yesterday while doing mag changes. My grandad taught me high-ready with shotguns. Also, much of the hunting community who use bolt-actions (e.g. remmy 700), you see a lot of high-ready technique.

However, with the advent of the pistol grip for rifles and carbines, the high ready has a disavantage in many situations. If I was clearing a Japanese bunker in the S. Pacific or a building in western Germany during WWII with an M1 Garand – you could bet your boots I’d be using the high-ready position. Thoughts anyone?

But in Fallujah or NYC w/ a relatively compact AR? Definetely low ready. I’m looking foward to the pistol edition.
- JShepard
  
  @KineticFury Love it! Didn’t even think about shotguns and bolt action or clip fed rifles. Really changes the game as you don’t have that pistol grip. Plus loading that internal mag with a stripper clip/enbloc clip or by individual round is so much easier from a high ready (also makes chamber inspection easier for that officer or sgt.). If you’re not very tall you can’t really do a proper low ready with something like a 91/30 as the darn thing’s about 4 feet long and with the bayonet, which was really never intended to be removed (‘zeroed’ at the factory with it on!), its almost 6 feet long. Factor in how CQB was taught in those days with bayonet thrusts and rifle parries high ready seems more ideal. I think if I were clearing a bunker or trench in WWII I would have wanted a Winchester 1897, Thompson/Grease Gun, or a 1911. I agree high ready seems more ideal there if all you have is a rifle/pike. Also, if you’re rifle’s longer than the trench is wide it really narrows your options in hand to hand defense from low ready and increases the likelihood that you’ll end up getting you’re muzzle in the dirt with it being so long, even more with the bayonet. Some of the US WWII literature about point shooting in CQB is pretty interesting from a historical perspective. How things changed from ‘engage in hand to hand bayonet combat as quickly as possible’ to ‘use the semi auto advantage of the M1 to stand off and smoke the guys with bolt guns’. I find it funny the differences in quality of long-arms (and ammunition) in WWII among various countries and the inverse proportion to bayonet length.
KineticFury

…and what about high vs. low w/ an mp5? Guess it depends on task/location.
- OPR
  
  @KineticFury MP5 = low-ready and MP5K = high-ready?
EdRamsey

http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/images/reviews/253/1250737934_2.jpg

If you are old enough to remember “Charlie’s Angels” (the TV show not the movie) or you have internet access, you should know that Sabrina did high ready 30 years before the SEALS. I am just saying.
EdRamsey

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5p3lUJPGJZQ/SXafD9LRgGI/AAAAAAAABPU/NWQoZxrhAu0/s1600/capture190.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5p3lUJPGJZQ/SXalBjf8TCI/AAAAAAAABQ0/FvO_TbXB1BY/s1600/sabrina14.jpg

If you are old enough to remember “Charlie’s Angels” (the TV show not the movie) or you have internet access, you should know that Sabrina did high ready 30 years before the SEALS. I am just saying.
Tango9

Great stuff Jack. I don’t have any door kicking experience, but all the training on handguns I received was low ready for many of the same reasons as a rifle.

Additionally if you get buck fever as the adrenaline rush hits and discharge early you’re more likely to hit your target in the leg, stomach, etc.
- HugeFan
  
  @Tango9 That’s what she said… Sorry couldn’t help it.
  - Breach
    
    @HugeFan Giggity
    - HugeFan
      
      @Breach 😉
  - Tango9
    
    @HugeFan
    Yeah I shoulda known better lol
    - HugeFan
      
      @Tango9 Check six!
  - Matt2
    
    @HugeFan That was f’ing great! My girlfriend just looked over to see what was so funny, and now she is giving me such a strange look. Go away girl, Im in the loadout room right now:-)
Clyde_82_TX

@JackMurphyRGR what does Jeff cooper’s modern technique teach? High ready or low ready or a hybrid?
Breach

Good stuff Jack. I have a question; Why do I see some guys, usually non military, place their non trigger hand all the way up the hand guard as far away as possible? Does it give more control and therefore limit the amount your barrel raises up when you fire a shot? I know one thing, it looks frigging retarded.
- AF138
  
  @Breach Probably has something to do with the (former) Magpul guys using it. They equate engaging multiple targets to an artist holding his paint brush close to the bristles (arm extended), vice holding the brush at the opposite end (magwell). I’ve adopted this technique myself, because it works for me in most cases. I will use a very worn out and cliche phrase that dictates how I hold my weapon, given the situation…it’s METT-TC dependent.
- FormerSFMedic
  
  @Breach Good question brother. Let me see if I can help explain. Gripping the rifle out toward the muzzle has 2 distinct advantages over ALL other methods. 1) it allows for the best possible control over recoil and 2) it allows for the fast transition from target to target. One thing you have to understand before trying to wrap your mind around the methodology is the changes that have been made in the engagement philosophy. Less than a decade ago, most tactical shooters were still taught to engage threats with a double tap or triple tap or some variation of immediate response and head shots. Recent combat experience has taught us that this engagement “style” does not hold up under stress in actual real world engagements. After other various weaknesses were identified, a new “postmodern” ideology was developed and specific methodology was developed around it. The idea now is to engage a threat with as many rounds as it takes as fast as possible, shooting the threat all the way to the ground and then getting the gun on the next threat, also as fast as possible. This new postmodern ideology stresses extreme efficiency without wasted motion. To accomplish this kind of speed while maintaining precise accuracy, a new kind of griping methodology was developed and influenced by the fastest and most accurate shooters in the world…….competition shooters. The competition shooting style was adapted and is now used with great effect in combat. I can tell you that I have used almost every shooting method from the past and the new postmodern style gives me more control, speed, and accuracy than any of the older methods. I was essentially being held back by my techniques. It may look weird but when you get that hand out there and that elbow up, the gun becomes much easier to run.
  - Breach
    
    @FormerSFMedic @AF138 Thanks for the information guys. Some really great and useful information get’s passed around this site, pretty cool.
  - JShepard
    
    @FormerSFMedic @Breach That’s about it. It seems like the weirdest thing in the world for the first 100 rounds or so. If you’ve ever shot sling supported rifle, it uses similar concepts. You basically use your off hand as kind of a “support cable” on a cantilever beam (rifle). Sorry, that’s what you get coming from an engineer. Also because you have control way out front it makes it easier to move the muzzle fast with small deft adjustments without the ‘slop’ associated with maneuvering a mass at the end of a lever. This also makes recoil control much more manageable. The brush analogy works well, I haven’t heard that before. Also, This style works well with the current theories in body armor in being square with the target. One of the biggest things is getting a hand guard that fits your body size or developing the musculature to make it work. Getting a long hand guard is a hardware fix, which can be a crutch for those not in shape, or can help refine those that are. The straighter your arm, without overextending, it seems to allow the use of different muscles than using just your arms to support the weapon. As to why you see all the civvies doing it I’d say it is threefold. First we are much more susceptible to new fancy “super tactical operator” tactics and having no first hand door kicking experience we all gather behind one or groups of SME’s. Not that it is necessarily a bad thing, but posts like this make us all consider why we (and the SME’s) do something one way or another and what is appropriate and isn’t. Second, is like FormerSFMedic said, civilians are active in the competition arena and are always looking for the next great tactic, trick, technique and gadget to cut times and increase accuracy. So like any competitive activity (think golf) everyone is jumping all over every new thing to try and get an edge. Third, to steal a term from an SME we are not bound by the ‘institutional inertia’ that’s part of the military. The military has layers of bureaucracy and ‘it is done this way because its always been done this way’ (the bureaucracy is my daily headache) so the weapons training that is taught in the basic and advanced schools may not be up on the cutting edge in the competition world or is geared to something entirely different (i.e. competition) where the military has more of a multidimensional threat, like door kicking range to hundreds of yards. I always think of this marine’s post when it comes to how fast things evolve. Despite what happened, and like most marines, and you’ll see pictures of this brave marine rocking a carbine from a chair. http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=38540
    - Breach
      
      @JShepard Good stuff dude, thanks!
    - Old PH2
      
      @JShepard Those concepts jive with what I was taught by an AMU instructor while in College. The use of the 1907 sling was standard in competitive shooting back in the late 70’s early 80’s. We used it during offhand portion of the small bore rifle competition. As well as during the sitting phase, I’ve even seen fellows use the sling during prone firing. Having that hand out towards the muzzle was described as the effort to form an isometric tension that permitted balance and a steady platform for faster recoil recovery. Funny how old school gets rediscovered every now and then.
    - JShepard
      
      @Old PH2 Love the history of the sling supported and the incredible stability it offers has always fascinated me. Appeals to the engineer in me, same with everything related to shooting, gear and the military. I’ve thought about drawing up a force diagram on the different positions and maybe the new “post modern” shooting position. The similarities in how the force is applied is very similar with the “push/pull” tension allowing for stability and the classic “shelf” your form with your arm when standing, unsupported. Maybe I’ll draw it up sometime when I’ve got some time.
    - CJCJ
      
      @JShepard
      
      Slings – A future topic for the Loadout Room? I’m in.
  - lightfighter
    
    @FormerSFMedic @Breach The question is do you roll the shoulder as well as the wrist ? I am of the mind that it should only be the wrist but I see a ton of images where the shooter’s shoulder is, for lack of a better word, pronated.
    - JShepard
      
      @lightfighter @FormerSFMedic @Breach Kind of curious as to what you’re describing. Would love some examples!
    - HugeFan
      
      @JShepard @lightfighter @FormerSFMedic @Breach +100
    - lightfighter
      
      @HugeFan @JShepard @FormerSFMedic @Breach It’s easier to see in a picture than describe. Essentially, one’s arm is fully extended with the thumb on top of the top rail versus holding the front guard in your palm. One can do this by simply rotating the ( in my case, left ) thumb from a 9:00 position to 12:00. That’s easy to visualize.
      
      Now, the hard bit to describe: One can do the above without articulating the elbow and shoulder or one can also do it by moving the elbow from a sort of 8:00 o’clock position to a 10:00 0’clock position which also articulates the shoulder up, and inward so that the shoulder is closer to one’s ear.
      
      Not well described on my part but it’s easily executed within a second or so.
      
      So my original comment / question was, Articulate the elbow and shoulder ?
      
      I say no as it feels quiet weird to me. But then I’m often going against the grain of things.
    - JShepard
      
      @lightfighter Pretty sure I follow. For me it depends on what I’m shooting.
      
      If it’s my own personalized AR, with the long rail to fit my long arms, I shoot with my thumb at the 12:00-1:00 position with my elbow at the 9:00 or 10:00. I don’t roll my shoulder’s as far forward as I used to (they used to be as far forward as possible) as I try to keep it back square so my shoulders don’t interfere with my peripheral vision. They’re still going to be up in that position you describe as they are closer to my face. I like to take advantage of the strength advantage of my shoulders over my arms.
      
      If I’m shooting a standard carbine length handguard I have to tuck my elbow more down towards the 8:00 like you describe or my elbow will be bent too much and would increase my profile with my elbow hanging out on the left side. I already run into enough stuff as it is, I don’t need extra stuff sticking out, so it will be more traditional, but still with the thumb at the 12-1:00.
      
      I hope that made sense. I now understand, it really is a PITA to describe. I guess I grip the handguard in the same orientation then adjust my arm to fit however much space I have. I guess it would be yes, articulate elbow/shoulder with long handguard, no for everything else. Sorry for the convoluted explanation kinda had to think through it!
SEAN SPOONTS

I certainly looks as if low ready has the better arguments going for it. But, I do have a query. In low ready I should think an AD or ND into a hard concrete floor would cause a richochet that might might cause a problem in a stack. Has that occurred?
- Tango9
  
  @SEAN SPOONTS LOL Sean. You know it has. But dirt is better than sky, I think. I’d rather take some concrete or a bullet fragment to the calf instead of a round to the ass on the 2d floor.
AF138

Somebody should invite Kyle Defoor to this discussion.
- HugeFan
  
  @AF138 I will admit to being a “Defoor Whore”. I regularly visit his blog and follow his opinions on this stuff quite a bit… I’m glad someone else brought his name up. If I may: Rich Graham has some pretty cool youtube videos regarding active engagement type performance. For instance:
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f1Um4z1LRI
  
  and
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgyRBqcsRcE
Eric_Strattoniii

A thing called Close Quarters Defense (CQD) also greatly influenced going to the high ready, it is being pushed out but there is a “struggle” going on in regard to that system of “self-defense”.
RetreatHell

Sometimes I’ll use high ready with carbines in classes when I really start getting fatigued. Jeff Gonzales (a former SEAL) utilizes it often, and I find myself primarily using it in his classes. Other instructors give me shit when I use it and make SEAL jokes.

I do however primarily use high ready with handgun. I find it faster to acquire my front sight (actually my red dot now) and engage the target when starting from high ready as opposed to low ready. But if I maneuvering around people I’ll usually use low ready. They each have their time and place with me, and I’m not absolute in anything I do and am always open to learning new TTPs as well. I also do have to be cognizant of my legs when doing low ready with handgun because I’m a paraplegic in a wheelchair so I don’t wanna sweep my knees with the gun.

S/F
Paul
Icegator

And history repeats itself again and again! This debate was done already……with the sword, back around the crusades. Look to Johannes Liechtenauer (1300’s)! I love history!
leiber

There was a mistake though in Lamb’s weapon manipulation.
ehansen99

Where are the comments to this thread please???

High Ready vs. Low Ready

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