Guns rip2

Published on February 11th, 2014 | by Nick Irving

12

RIP Ammo!

I’m sure most of you on the Load Out Room have been hearing the buzz about the new “RIP (Radically Invasive Projectile) Ammo” by G2 Research claiming that this new round will be the last round that you will ever need.  Well, here are my thoughts after seeing a testing of the round.

OVERVIEW

The RIP ammo, is truly unlike any hollow point/self-defense ammo that I have ever fired. Without getting into performance right away, the difference starts with the overall appearance of the round.  For those who are or were familiar with the “Extreme Shock” ammunition, you may see the resemblance in the two.

The projectile itself is made up of 8 arrow-like claws, a patent pending design called a TROCAR.  These TROCAR points are joined together around projectiles center piece/slug. Once the hollow section is filled, or comes in contact with “material,” the TROCAR points separate in a predictable manner, allowing the center slug/projectile to follow its path of least resistance. The TROCAR points, once separated, form somewhat of a circular grouping once inside the object, such as the 12, 1, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, and 11 o’clock.  

The TROCAR points is where the projectile makes its money. Due to the design of the 8 projectiles, they rip, tear, and tumble through its intended object, instead of creating a straight and narrow permanent wound channel like an FMJ, and generally stay inside of its target with a few that manage to get outside.

The center piece/projectile manages to keep most of its kinetic energy due to the fact that the TROCAR points made its initial opening. The penetration of the center piece exceeds 15″ and has an overall diameter spread of around 6″.

As far as accuracy, I would say that it’s pretty accurate for a 96 grain 9mm projectile, averaging between 2-2.4 inches at 25 yards.

ISSUES

I’ve only managed to find one issue with the round and it’s claims to be “The last round you will ever need.”

Over-penetration

“The International Wound Ballistics Association (IWBA), between 12.5 and 14 inches (318 and 356 mm) of penetration in calibrated tissue simulant is optimal performance for a bullet which is meant to be used defensively, against a human adversary.”  The FBI also states that 12-14.4″ of penetration is optimal and meets the standard.  

The RIP ammo can and does exceed 16″ of penetration. This is excessive for home defense, as well as self-defense in a crowded (urban) environment. Be sure of your backstop! As a sniper, we typically train to shoot moving targets with a width of 12″, the “average width of a man.” 16″ would be a little too excessive for personal defense, especially when the projectile is a solid, non hollowing object. As for the small TROCAR projectiles, their paths may be predictable as far as patterning, but they have a tendency to exit prematurely due to its tumbling nature, similar to a long rang caliber projectile in its transonic state in flight, it can go anywhere.

A penetration depth of 12.5 to 14 inches (318 and 356 mm) may seem excessive, but a bullet sheds velocity and crushes a narrower hole as it penetrates deeper, while losing velocity, so the bullet might be crushing a very small amount of tissue during its last two or three inches of travel, giving only between 9.5 and 12 inches of effective wide-area penetration. Also, skin is elastic and tough enough to cause a bullet to be retained in the body, even if the bullet had a relatively high velocity when it hit the skin. About 250 ft/s (76 m/s) velocity is required for an expanded hollow point bullet to puncture skin 50% of the time.

The IWBA’s and FBI’s penetration guidelines are intended to ensure that the bullet can reach a vital structure from most angles, while retaining enough velocity to generate a large diameter hole through tissue. An extreme example where penetration would be important is if the bullet first had to enter and then exit an outstretched arm before impacting the torso. A bullet with low penetration might embed itself in the arm, whereas a higher penetrating bullet would penetrate the arm, then enter the thorax where it would have a chance of hitting a vital organ.

STATS

G2 Research R.I.P. 9mm
* 16″ Penetration
* Up to 6″ diameter spread
* 96 gr projectile
* 2″ grouping at 25 yrds
* 1265 FPS / 490 Muzzle Energy
* 9 Separate Wound Channels
* Precision Machined
* Solid Copper / Lead Free
* Defeats all known barriers such as sheet metal, sheet rock, windshields, plywood, heavy winter clothing


About the Author

is a former U.S. Army Ranger with multiple combat deployments to both Iraq and Afghanistan. During his service within the 75th Ranger Regiment, Nicholas served as an Assaulter, Heavy and Light Machine Gunner, and Designated Marksman.


12 comments
EarlyMon
EarlyMon

I'm sorry but the quoted specs are nonsense.

96 grains @ 1265 fps = 341 ft-lb or 463 joules of muzzle energy.

10% calibrated ballistic gel simulates soft tissue.

Per Dr. Fackler, head of the Wound Ballistics Laboratory for the US Army’s Medical Training Center, Letterman Institute, skin produces the equivalent resistance to a bullet as 4" muscle tissue.

If the trocars only penetrate 4" in ballistic gel, how far past a ribcage do you think they'd get? About zero, yes?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psGFPRpWZ3w


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_27b9P0dfuI


The tested ammo above did go above 1265 fps and so might have hit 490 joules of muzzle energy - but very little of that is going to translate into deep penetration for terminal ballistics - a lot of energy is lost shedding the dramatic but wholly worthless trocars.

You're left with a 48 grain core and nowhere near deep penetration.

Ro_Bird
Ro_Bird

Question 1: Is the data from the ballistic gel test your own or is this data cited from the manufacturer?

Question 2: Is the "data" from the barrier testing available and is this independent research or is this the manufacturers own claims?

Question 3: How did you determine projectile velocity and energy?

I'm not calling bullshit but just wanting to have more clarification on the extent of your evaluation.

shooten
shooten

I was looking forward to your opinion on this.  Over penetration is a non-starter in my house.

gipbmac
gipbmac

I really like the idea of this bullet but my only qualm would be in the event that I actually had to draw and defend myself - I would get charged with using excessive force or or something related by some slimy attorney and ultimately lose my ability to legally possess a firearm...

FarmboySevenSixTwo
FarmboySevenSixTwo

@EarlyMon Thanks for giving a damn and actually giving us information we could use. You should have written this review. Nick you need to seriously step it up.

Muskrat
Muskrat

I share your concern that the projectile may look "scary" to a potential jury and influence their decision.

EarlyMon
EarlyMon

@FarmboySevenSixTwo @EarlyMon I've got a lot of respect for Nick, and didn't intend anything untowards or personal. Evaluating fragmenting and frangible rounds is very tricky and a lot of experienced people easily mistake how to interpret test results in this regime. 

I'm not trying to pimp for Federal or anyone else. We're all in this together - I just want to know that anyone aiding me in a defensive situation is prepared and I'm going to offer the same in return.

EarlyMon
EarlyMon

@FarmboySevenSixTwo @EarlyMonOoops - the physicist in me ought to have noted that any body at rest on the planet has potential energy due to gravity. So - the sum total of the bullet's remains at rest is much less than 1 joule. Rotflol, cheers.

EarlyMon
EarlyMon

@FarmboySevenSixTwo @EarlyMonThat's an absolutely fabulous presentation, I recommend it myself. Required viewing to have a sense of fact vs myth imo. The 22:00 mark shows the slide I quoted earlier on skin bullet resistance.

As for RIP penetration, this next vid is anecdotal as far as I'm concerned, but it looks to me like this stuff is going to fill its hollow point if it goes through drywall and act like a FMJ - just like any other hollow point. More dangerous to someone on the other side of a wall than in front of it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTpceymbX6w


Long and short of it, all of their marketing claims are infuriating to me. "Cuts like a hole saw." What? It stops at the boundary layer to rotate for a while and then continues onward? It punches like any other bullet and the trocars showed no evidence of retaining angular momentum in gel - nor would you expect them to. "Transfers 100% of its potential energy into the target." Ok, that one is true. Upon firing, all potential energy transforms into kinetic energy, the potential energy term is zero - so I agree, it transfers 100% of zero potential energy into the target. Just sad what they're peddling.

The only thing new is some shaping for marketing. This following stuff is on its third name now, Civil Defense, but it's the same stuff, different day.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_hZMZM1l04


PS - Yeah, I saw that HK article (and comments) here earlier. That's all I want to say.


Cheers compadre!

FarmboySevenSixTwo
FarmboySevenSixTwo

@EarlyMon @FarmboySevenSixTwoI have a ton of respect for Nick and I loved his books. I can't wait to read his new book. I think his blog posts are absolutely garbage and rarely contain any good information. The HK 416 A5 article was the biggest waste of time and many of Nicks points were factually wrong.

On another note, here is a good video on a physicians perspective on gun shot wounds. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tku8YI68-JA

Contrary to what the author says...I don't think RIP ammo penetrates as deep as the manufacturer claims...I don't think those little copper spikes are going to do very well on clothing, or osseous tissue.  

This is the Load Out Room....Is it that hard to get some ballistic gel and run a few tests?


We are all in this together. Hope this finds you well EarlyMon

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