The ASP Baton

I noticed a few comments during the Open Comment post were requesting some non-lethal talk, so I thought today would be time to discuss the telescopic baton commonly known as the ASP baton and some of its techniques of employment.  While many of us are aware of the ASP collapsible baton, many don’t think to purchase or carry one.  Some mistakenly believe they are only military and law enforcement purchasable.  The ASP is seen everywhere in security and law enforcement, and for good reason.  It is a reliable and effective weapon which can be employed for either non-lethal or lethal defense.  Law enforcement policies prevent the ASP from being employed in its full capacity, but remember that civilians are under no such use-of-force policy.

Japanese antique tetsubo iron club

I can’t say when it was that man first picked up a heavy stick and bashed a fellow man over the head with it, but I’m going to take a guess that it was probably before the act of writing and probably around the time man first began uttering words and insults. Let’s just say that we have a LONG history of bashing each other with sticks, clubs, maces, batons, and the like in both offensive and defensive use.  It’s a gross motor movement and virtually anyone can use a club with little to no training and still manage to injure, incapacitate, or kill another.  In medieval days it was common for peasantry to carry clubs for defense against thieves and highway-men.  In Asia baton-like weapons in various forms had been employed for centuries in martial arts fighting styles. As late as WW I both sides employed trench clubs (truncheons) in war for times when the enemy was over running trenches and inside the fighting distance of the long bayonet of the times.

WWI Truncheon (trench club)

The ASP is an expandable steel baton made up of three sections.  They come in various lengths from 16-31″ in length with the 21″ and 26″ versions being most common.  The outside tip is a small solid steel knob shaped like a button, and it aids in extension by having the increased weight while also aiding in strikes.  The handle has an interchangeable end-cap that can be changed from the standard base to numerous others such as a glass breaker, retention handle, mirror, or flashlight even.  One variant incorporates OC Pepper Spray into the handle.  They are carried collapsed and are opened by inertia when swung and the segments friction lock open.  Newer models utilize a lever lock instead.  The ‘ASP’ brand baton is made by Armament Systems and Procedures and many consider their product to be the best constructed and most reliable in use even though there are other just as good competitors.  Their product is so widely adopted that many other expandable batons are referred to as ‘ASP’s as well.

In more modern times, criminals still use club-type weapons in assaults and robbery.  The club is one of the simplest weapons to improvise and anything from a axe handle to a piece of pipe can be used for that purpose although knives are more common in criminal usage.  Criminals rarely use legitimate batons such as the ASP or martial arts batons and likewise would not generally expect a regular civilian to be carrying one either. I would venture to think that a mugger would be extremely surprised and dissuaded if a victim seemed to have a 2 foot steel rod appear in their hand out of thin air.  Any criminal still attempting to pursue a victim at that point shouldn’t be surprised to end up in a hospital with some broken bones.

The ASP provides excellent reach and can be a psychological deterrent to would-be aggressors.  In typical law enforcement training, the emphasis is strictly on non-lethal strikes to major muscle groups such as the thigh, but the ASP can certainly be lethal in striking the head and can cause severe harm by breaking bones.  As a civilian employing the ASP you must use proportionate force to your attacker or you may have some serious legal trouble.  Of course, if met with a pistol and imminent threat of taking your life I’m fairly certain that a head strike would be justified instead of a thigh hit.

Employment of the ASP is as easy as swinging it forcefully.  As simple as swinging the ASP is, training is necessary and highly recommended for any user.  An untrained user could very easily kill or leave permanent injury on an attacker that opens you up to arrest or civil suits.  If being attacked with a knife striking the hands and breaking fingers is certainly justified to stop the attack, so long as you stop striking when no longer under threat.  Proportional use of force is key.

The image at right shows striking areas and is color coded by chance of causing severe injury and should be memorized any ASP user and striking anywhere ‘red’ should be avoided unless necessary.  The mere act of extending the baton could create a psychological reaction on the attacker and they may very well end the confrontation for fear of being struck.  Training batons are foam covered and can still create severe pain, especially when you are struck in the hands.

 

I’ve seen plenty of police brutality videos and can’t understand some of the officers mindsets.  Striking someone for compliance repeatedly may instead make them fight for their life and to stop the attack by the officer.  There’s a balance that must be found and you need to know when to step back and let them reassess their non-compliance, usually the prospect of another hit will make them think.

If under attack from someone who is very likely going to overpower you or who isn’t responding to ‘green’ zone strikes, the leg bones below the calf are a vulnerable area that can stop nearly any motivated attacker as long as you deliver a strong enough blow to potentially break the leg there.  Striking that area is exceptionally hard to block or deflect unlike upper torso strikes and is extremely painful.  An attacker that can no longer support themselves standing is not much of a threat at that point.  Another strike that can quickly stop a large attacker is to strike downward into the clavicle (collar-bone) which will often render that arm useless to the attacker.  The risk there is striking the head or neck or the strike being deflected by the attacker.

It’s vital to remember that no one wants to be struck, and will naturally go into the defensive posture using the arms to deflect or grab at the baton.  For that reason, striking the thigh is preferable as it is difficult to block and can be struck with great force with little chance of permanent injury.  People can withstand a lot of muscle trauma when adrenaline is flowing full force or drug use is involved so if a strike to the thigh doesn’t get a reaction, immediately transition to the yellow areas or bone/joint strikes as those are more disabling and difficult to withstand.

The ASP is also usable as a pain compliance tool much like a larger kubotan (persuader) while collapsed as well as extended.  I remember a training scenario where I was the attacker and was to choke my victim instructor.  When I grabbed the throat, he reached up inside with both hands and locked my wrist with the ASP using his thumbs and just leaned forward holding my wrist and pressing the ASP down into it.  It hurt like hell and brought me to my knees against my will.  I wanted to continue attacking but with my right wrist trapped in agony and my instructor in the dominant position there wasn’t a lot left for me to do.

The ASP while closed can still be used to strike pressure points.  A closed ASP can be employed in a hammer striking motion using the base to strike with if you keep your thumb over the tip to prevent extension until the attacker is pushed back enough for extension.  Adding a tactical type flashlight at night and employing both in hammer strike cycles is great for disorienting and overwhelming an attacker.  I was looking for some good videos to show some techniques and came across the one below which talks about ground fighting with the ASP which is often overlooked in training.  Another excellent video is at this link, but embedding is disabled unfortunatly.  I urge you to check it out because the control techniques there are effective and not as widely trained.

In military use, the ASP can be used in many other tasks.  It can be used to break glass and clear windows.  If I need to boost a buddy up onto a roof top I can hold it by the ends so he can step up and then lift, or I can extend it and place the tip on something secure while holding the other end to create a step.  I routinely handled insurgent prisoners and knew if one got seriously unruly I had the option to control them without going hands on or lethal.  In many countries overseas where police routinely employ batons against citizens they have the fear of being struck and will comply readily to prevent a beating (not that we would unless necessary) so its psychological effect is greater there.

If you wish to use an ASP baton, you must check local laws to verify they are legal in your area.  Another consideration is that you may need a concealed weapons permit depending on your style of carry and local laws.  I’m no lawyer so use due diligence on your end to stay within the law.  Being a potentially lethal weapon, many of the same principles of employing a firearm also apply to employing the ASP.  Use proportionate force, and stop when the threat stops.  If you decide to purchase an expandable baton, make sure to purchase a quality one.  I’ve seen and purchased cheap $10 knock-off’s at flea markets and they will not stand up to a real fight.  Get one made of quality steel.  The actual ASP brand is only slightly expensive at around $80 but worth it.  Do get training!  If you end up in court and show that you’ve had proper training, it shows that you’re not some thug and lends credit to your proper use of the weapon.  Just like in firearms. Eskrima martial arts techniques can be used with the ASP and there are practical lessons to be learned from that style.

Carrying an ASP has some advantages you may not have considered.  You can carry an ASP in many places where you can’t carry a firearm.  They don’t have to be declared in checked luggage or have as many restrictions when going into foreign territory as firearms.  They don’t garner the reaction that a firearm does if seen by others.  They may be completely ignored by people who don’t recognize what it is.  For instance, I have an ASP stowed upright between my driver-side seat and shifter in plain view from outside, and have had my car searched by military base security for random security inspections multiple times and I don’t think it’s been recognized once.  I carry a 21″ model and have a horizontal holster which can ride on my back, side, or front that cost me less than $10.  It practically disappears on my back when covered by a shirt, and the draw looks like reaching for a wallet.  Without a holster, it isn’t hard to conceal with the appendix carry in the front of your pants angled with the thigh toward the groin but that has the potential for slipping or falling out so I don’t recommend it without a holster of some sort.  Maintaining the baton is simple, just apply a little CLP to the shaft every once in a while.

Overall, the ASP and similar products are great and effective weapons.  They are a versatile weapon which doesn’t add a lot of weight to kit for those of us serving and it provides extra options in the situations we can encounter.  For civilians they can provide an alternative to firearms.  I know some who refuse to own firearms because they fear the children may find them and become accidentally shot, and there is no risk of that in owning an ASP for defense.  I personally deployed mine on two occasions and both times the aggressors decided I wasn’t the guy they wanted to screw with anymore.  I had a firearm available in the first instance but the situation was resolved with the simple presentation of the ASP instead.  They work, they are effective, and they have been relied on by law enforcement professionals for good reason.  Go quality, know your laws, and use proportionate force if ever necessary.

 

Bravo One, Out.

42 comments
Tango9
Tango9 moderator

"I’ve seen plenty of police brutality videos and can’t understand some of the officers mindsets.  Striking someone for compliance repeatedly may instead make them fight for their life and to stop the attack by the officer.  There’s a balance that must be found and you need to know when to step back and let them reassess their non-compliance, usually the prospect of another hit will make them think."

 

Anyone who's ever bounced or been a barback knows this:  there's a fine line between compliance and initiating full on fight-or-flight response.  It's a skill, and it requires --thoughtful-- application of minimum force.

katgirl
katgirl

I couldn't really afford it, but your article was so compelling that look what just came in the mail today!  I am very happy with the construction, the mass and even folded, it would be perfect for how I had been trained.  THANK YOU!

http://twolftfeet.com/me/me_asp_30percent.jpg

katgirl
katgirl

 @BravoOne The ASP baton can break bones, right?  Just wanted to verify that it would do the trick for a pain-resistant, possibly lethal attack.  I know some of the earlier "spring coshes" couldn't.  I do understand escalation of force and it would make a great Kubotan as well.  Like I said, as a result of your article, one is on its way to me :)

 

katgirl
katgirl

I had no idea ASP Batons were that effective - I'm always learning something worthwhile here.  I had pretty good training w/ Kubota back in the bad old days and both his police straight baton and Kubotan, but carrying around a 6-D cell Maglite in CA is asking for trouble :)  I def. need to look at this.  Thanks again!

Amtracker99
Amtracker99

I'm surprised the extendable "spring billy" batons were not mentioned here. I used to have one back in the '90's and man could you eff someone up with one of those. A spring billy is similar to an ASP but is instead constructed of heavy gauge steel spring, so when you swung it at someone it would bend with your swing and hurt that much more on impact. Not to mention the spring would catch on skin/hair and rip those up too. Does anyone know if they are just outright illegal at this point? I haven't seen one for years.

LCpl X
LCpl X

As for the video, it looks fancy. Was wondering if anyone kept up the Irish stickfighting traditions, I know they still make billy clubs and "walking" sticks, but I've never seen videos of Irish stickfighting, just heard stories about old timers with billy clubs.

LCpl X
LCpl X

*** An untrained user could very easily kill or leave permanent injury on an attacker that opens you up to arrest or civil suits... There’s a balance that must be found and you need to know when to step back and let them reassess their non-compliance, usually the prospect of another hit will make them think. ***

 

I've always thought violence of action was the key to any use of force, non-lethal. In the case of impact devices, your target is the bony part, to break bones. For anyone who's studied the Rodney King "beating", they hit and reassessed continuously, making for media fodder, they were hitting the "green" zones and prolonged something which could've ended quickly with direct hits to bony areas.

 

The video loop that the media showed didn't show the swarm of 8 or so officers which King high on PCP easily broke through, like something out of a superhero comic, then the early generation TASERs, which high easily pulled out of his body not affecting him.

 

By the time you've determined your baton or ASP is needed, hit/reassess is for pussies, you wanna break bones to stop the violence quickly, your level of response has to exceed to quickly stop the threat.

 

To me stop and assess is like putting empty shells in your pocket at the range, so you don't have to clean up... It's bad training, bad mindset. 

 

Qualified Immunity. Plus, any big department should clearly have this detailed in their use of force. ASP = Breaking bones, don't let possibility of arrest or law suits dictate how you do your job.

JPate191
JPate191

Are you sure about not having to check them in your luggage? I would encourage anyone traveling research that for yourself. With TSA being the way they are, I can't see them letting a baton on a plane. In seventeen years of law enforcement I can say the baton does work in numerous ways you may not think about. Good article.

Old PH2
Old PH2 moderator

 @katgirl231 Ouch, I bet that would leave a mark!  Looks great, definitely hides the real purpose, good distraction.

BravoOne
BravoOne

 @katgirl Absolutely!  A strike to the fore-arm can break it readily, and an aggressor might even be nice enough to 'give' it to you.  What I mean is people tend to use the arms to shield themselves and glance incoming blows.  A hit to the fingers/hand/wrist can also expect breakage.  If things go bad and someones trying to handle you, if you can reach it a strike to or just above the ankle will put almost any man on the ground.  Destroy the base and baddie no walkie no 'mo ;)  Congrats to you on your purchase btw, hope it serves you well!

BravoOne
BravoOne

 @katgirl If you're learning something then we're doing something right, glad to help!

BravoOne
BravoOne

 @Amtracker99 My sister had and used one, tore up a bar patron who followed her to the car and got grabby.  They do work, but the modern ASP is more versatile and effective in my opinion.  The problem with a spring baton is that they flex too much so you do more whipping than trauma.  More modern versions are a little more solid but still suffer the same problem.

katgirl
katgirl

 @Matt2 I just had an idea and might write the company about it.  I'm thinking of mounting a small camera tripod head on the cap.  The it's a camera monopod, right?  Might not be the greatest legal defense in the world, but it would give something for ones defense lawyer to work with.

katgirl
katgirl

 @Matt2 Absolutely right.  I did some research into the Penal Codes and it is a felony.  CA self-defense laws are nuts.  It makes more sense carrying concealed sans permit because the charges aren't as bad, and no difference between the illegality of an ASP or my Kukri!

LCpl X
LCpl X

 @Matt2 

 

Yeah, because the weapon laws in CA were so reactionary in the 70s, you usually get some kind of intricate puzzle. The good thing is there are lots of "loop holes".

 

Personally, I think ASPs are too short, too expensive and too heavy (for what you'd want to do with 'em), look into those Irish walking sticks, or

 

better are those Eskrima rattan stick, light and durable, plus you can cut to best length (28" to 32"). As for laws, you can say it's for scratching my back or as walking cane, it's not a weapon.

 

Make one: http://www.stickgrappler.net/2009/04/submissions-fashioning-your-own-sticks.html

katgirl
katgirl

 @BravoOne I downloaded an might edit it so that I can study the techniques easier, but I've learned some similar things before so they make complete sense to me!  Great link.

Old PH2
Old PH2 moderator

 @LCpl X I recall seeing a book from Paladin press that addressed that.  Don't believe I've seen any video though.

JPate191
JPate191

@LCpl X Yes, Ernest Emerson of Emerson Knives just announced a training seminar on Irish stick fighting, on the west coast unfortunately.

BravoOne
BravoOne

 @LCpl X I absolutely agree, like I mentioned, civilians don't have use-of-force policies.  I won't hesitate to break arms or legs to stop someone needing to be stopped and neither should anyone else.  If they stop, I stop.  If they stop and I don't, I get in some trouble.  Proportional use. I'm not a LEO, I'm going to lay hate in rapidly escalating fashion.  In three seconds I could hit at least 3-5 times starting from muscle followed by limb incapacitation via broken bones. 

 

Where one gets into the shit is when they're defense turns to outright offense and the attacker begins becoming the victim, and can sell that in court.  Even if Law Enforcement doesn't charge or convict you, that turd can still go for your nuts in civil suits, and you still need to defend your actions.  Violence of action is great and encouraged, but so is control.  Keep your head about you or that goes bad fast.

Old PH2
Old PH2 moderator

 @LCpl X This works out great for LEO's but what a bout a private citizen?  Break some crack heads elbow or knee and end up in court.  I agree, aggression is the only answer to a raging tweaker. 

Old PH2
Old PH2 moderator

 @ArcticWarrior I have similar constraints, still have one in the car and one for the wife.  Great product, but I agree buy the name brand.  I've seen the off brand kink after one or two strikes across the thighs.

BravoOne
BravoOne

 @JPate191  As stated, I'm no lawyer and law's differ from place to place.  I've never had an issue with one in CHECKED luggage but imagine TSA would get their panties in a wad if I had it in the carry-on. 

katgirl231
katgirl231

 @Old PH2 Thank you!  I'm not super good at tinkering with hardware, but this came out well and even has the photography company label on it :)  Got a thumbs up from an attorney friend as well.

katgirl
katgirl

 @BravoOne Thank you.  What you're telling me makes me even happier with the purchase!

katgirl231
katgirl231

 @BravoOne You know, I think that I really like your sister!  A girl after my own heart and probably braver too!  btw.  about twenty years ago someone took the spring baton/cosh idea and made a flexible white plastic kitchen utensil that had a flattened round stainless steel piece on the end.  It was for breaking ice cubes into smaller pieces :)

Amtracker99
Amtracker99

 @BravoOne Thanks, good to know. I can see your point as far as the over flexing of the spring during swings leading to control, or lack of, issues. Not to mention any Eskrima techniques are practically out the window for the same reason.

 

Old PH2
Old PH2 moderator

 @katgirl  @Matt2 Pretty smart, be careful to never strike with the handle after that mod though.  I'm thinking the prosecutor would be all over that like hand loads in your pistol.

katgirl
katgirl

 @Matt2 oh fyi - if you have a regular folder, there are no blade length limitations here <shrugs>.

 

LCpl X
LCpl X

 @Old PH2 @JPate191 

 

Emerson Knives is quality stuff, I'm sure that stickfighting course will be good.

 

There's video out there, but it's crap. It's usually some Irish or Irish-American who took some Eskrima seminars, then pick up a walking stick and calling it Irish stick fighting.

LCpl X
LCpl X

 @ArcticWarrior 

 

That's my point with Rodney King and what you said 12 minutes, if you can use your impact devices if the situation warrants it, chances are the fight is on, if the fight is on, it's not show me yours and I'll show you mine, and keep one upping each other, it's stop the threat period. Impact is for bony parts, break bones,

 

if they ask why you broke bones, the suspect was moving, it was a fucking fight. 

 

There's policing on paper to satisfy the ACLU and there is policing on the street, every rookie gets told to forget much of what he learned in the academy, because like the Rodney King beating, hit and assess will only prolong the incident. The only time you should be assessing with your ASP is when the suspects on the ground.

 

 

LCpl X
LCpl X

 @Old PH2 

 

"I aimed for the green zones, but suspect was moving."

katgirl
katgirl

 @BravoOne btw - the ASP design, sturdiness and mass is as good as you described!  Thanks!  I was very happily surprised!

katgirl
katgirl

 @Tango9  @Old PH2  @Matt2 p.s. The first thing I imagined were ME photos of the square tattooing and the 1/4-20 bolt mark on some head in a courtroom brrr

katgirl
katgirl

 @Tango9  @Old PH2  @Matt2 Thanks for the hints.  I never use handloads for that reason.  Tango9, that is one of the best video series out there.  My main thought about the camera az/el mount is until I manage to get the right permits, in CA, just having an ASP or baton is a felony (it also may be that even with the Guard Card+baton certs, you might have to be in uniform).  It may still only be a misdemeanor to carry concealed w/o CCW, but I'd have to check on that.  I do often have a little camcorder or camera in my daypack (along with a DARK/IFAK etc) and because the ASP locks so well in its extended position, it really would be a pretty good monopod (I probably could even put my Sniper's Rest on it too).  I've always managed to avoid problems so if the ASP came out, it would be because I thought the situation was an immediate life-threatening event (then there's also 'Disparity of Force' since I'm pretty short).  Until I figure out how to reasonably call it something else, I might as well have a sidearm with me and all the things I have in my walk-the-dog-at-night-loadout.  Hmm, maybe, I'll have the neighbors see me actually use it as a camera monopod too.  Great food for thought here guys.  Many thanks again!

Tango9
Tango9 moderator

 @Old PH2  @katgirl  @Matt2 The hand loads bit is prescient.  Even if you're just a casual CC person:  do not fuck with the ammo you carry.  Oh.  And if the shit gets real?  Never. Ever. EVER. talk to the police.  Get an attorney first.  I don't care how right you might be, NEVER talk to the police.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

LCpl X
LCpl X

 @ArcticWarrior 

 

I don't mean you make up "suspect was moving" when he was on the ground, I mean there should be no pause, to assess, while the suspect is still in the fight. You don't give him a chance, until he's out of the fight.

 

So in what I'm advocating, you don't let up, so there should be no pause, the only pause should be when the threat is stopped, suspect is hurt, not moving.

 

But ASP should equal bony parts right from the git go, you don't start from green to yellow.

 

I agree you don't aim for the head red parts, but if the head gets in the way, or his nuts, oh well.